!

Really good quote from GenveurSquame: "Il est loin le temps des teams qui avaient des line-up de 5 ou 6 joueurs pour les 3 enviros les lundis soirs de LE sous TMO..."

When some will realize how wrong it is to try to put Stadium apart, I think it will be the best news for Stadium.

RushRiders powaaaa!

And powaaaaa to:
Carl, Scorpius, MrA, Nazgul, Benjisite, Tom, Slig, Kimhono, Starbuck, Jambon, Demonaz, Mazzyfred, Skubidou, YannBastian, Blackshark, FredoLeDingue, Blahitis, Rob, LePapa, Babcool, Daftdef, Garreth, Silicium, Nighty, Benz, Wrc, Sadhik, wintz, Vegeta, HellWood, Hydrophise, Overseas, Alfinor, Vortex, MrD, Alf.Red, Scalpro, sqonk, rodix, tutur, callyste, Banzai, Bin Fin, thebigboo, SatanasDiabolo, Ricardosan, Shadow of The Phenix, Sonic, Alex51, Kaly, Pasteque, Kid234, Junio, Speedracer, Sirroco, slash, doucette, guigui, sankok, calexico, exp, cacahuete, minitux, insomnia, pansen, baboy, panis, zooz, grizzly, boneless, sacha, censtar, acegikmo, SamLePirat, Rib, Bugalood, n3wodder, weetos, tindère et Claw.

But that's a way to remind where TM comes from as well. And since then, a lot of new names as well, of course!!!

Because it is OBVIOUS that you sold Canyon too soon, Maniaplanet was in Beta, nothing was developed, no new things (Maniascript for example). So logically, players considered Canyon as a new environment of tmu, not tm², and at 20€, that was too much for a lot of them, even if Canyon has a very good gameplay.
Why you did this ? Obviously, as I said later in my previous post, maybe you had no choice, because of the pressure of Ubisoft, also perhaps because tmu didn't bring you enough money anymore.
But the effects are the same about the community, even if you are not directly responsible.

http://forum.trackmaniaforever.com/user/9873-tati-trini/

#42: It's quite hard to guess how environment communities will collaborate and/or merge at some point. I deadly hope we'll have a strong multi-environment core to create those links, but i fear it will not be large enough.

Considering the business model (selling environments as full games) and the structure of the game(s) (no multi-environment until now), one should expect more specialization with separated communities rather than a single "family". Although the numerous new "social networks" features ease players to keep in touch, i doubt they will create lots of links between players who play different games (for a simple reason: they don't share a common interest).

Anyway, we can't be certain of the future and we'll see...

do you really mean that if we want to make a new environment next year, then we should wait 2014 for a single release of TM2?

What happened is that we tought we would be capable to release environments more often, but releasing them together would be like fire & forget, while we can now work on various genre, inside one system, as time goes on. TMO, Sunrise & United is not the right way to do this. Even for the first trackmania we wished to release environments in a separate way, but it would have been more difficult because of the shelves, since you can not guarantee that the games would still be on it when you release the next one. If you think of comic books, in the spirit of collections, it's exactly the same. It's not because you are use to have always a format, that it should not be adapted. I am really happy that people that bought Canyon still have an update tomorrow, and that people that are playing TM have a new environment this week, instead of waiting another year. I am also happy to have released Stadium into Trackmania². Things are more simple like this.

let me quote PC Gamer, for example
"Nadeo only recently released TrackMania 2: Stadium, but already they’re revving up for the next addition to their series of improbable racers. TrackMania 2: Valley is a rally-focused expansion, and is planned for release this Thursday, July 4th. Incidentally, let’s take a moment to congratulate Nadeo for the clear naming of their sequel. It’s better than their previous system of bolting extra subtitles with every version – resulting in TrackMania United Forever Star Edition: Origins. Or something."

We released Canyon too soon compared to the next envrionment, I agree on that, but it was already late after the announcement of Trackmania 2 and we had no clue it would take that long to release the next ones.

Ubisoft made us no pressure, it is speaking without knowing. In fact, it is the opposite. Until now, at Ubisoft, it was always to do what is the best for the project, end of story.

And split of the community is not made by us, it is simply made by people who are splitting it: as simple as that. The fun part is that the ones that are trying to split it are accusing us of it. Just don't believe them and you will feel that the community can be united. Have you ever seen people from one environment of TMO or TMS trying to split the community? No, they made their stuff in some place, but never tried to say that competitions should be only on their own environment, or that the other environments where bad (except for Island vs Coast maybe sometimes ^_^ kidding)

The common interest, Rom42, will be Maniaplanet, when it is about the tools like servers, scripts, news, models etc. The players themselves, and the pro players, are either going to be in multiple titles team, or in some obscure places, but it's the system that will unite the energy, much more than the style of gameplay: think maniapark, mania-actu, mania-exchange or Nadeo. Don't think about the ones that are insulting others, while being probably being incapable to create a percent of what people of the community are capable of making. These people are the ones that are trying to divide. They would have been ban a long time ago in the former community. Who want to play and organize stuff with such negative behaviors around?

As for the future they are trying to predict, like I said, it is just about quality & demos. Since nobody else than me really know something about what we will and can do, there is little they can do anyway.

"do you really mean that if we want to make a new environment next year, then we should wait 2014 for a single release of TM2?"

Well, i guess it wasn't intended to me but i have something to say about this. With Shootmania, Trackamnia 2 and the Maniaplanet core system developing at the same time, you might lose some time because you can't put all the ressources in a single project. Had those projects been sequenced (for instance, full SM first, then full TM2 and last full QM), you might have released a full 3-environments SM now and it would feel more "square". Also, the Maniaplanet core system seems to require a lot of work, maybe some time could have been saved by making "classical" games like TMO or TMS was. I might underestimate the input of Maniaplanet though, because i can't really say which TM2 feature would be impossible without it.

As you say, Canyon was indeed both too late (regarding the first TM2 ads) and too early (regarding other environments). From outside, it seems you have been slowed down in your projects (i gues you wouldn't have advertised that early if you knew the delays by then). Maybe the shareholder swap entailed a strategy change? Maybe that change was Maniaplanet instead of separated TM, SM and QM?

Community split

Each player is responsible for his/hers behaviour and words, and of course the split is the consequence of that. But on another hand, if you sell the environments per bundles, people will get used to play several of them, hence less narrow-minded. If you give diversified food to a young child, he will like diversified food when he grown up. If you give him only french fries, he will like only french fries. As you said, splits didn't happen that much during TMO/TMS. They do with Stadium and Canyon, both those who are sent without bundles. I mean, when you decide a business model, it has an influence on the gaming patterns. A mayor who decides to put a traffic light vs a roundabout knows it will lead to different driving patterns (even with the SAME drivers).

The common interest

Servers, scripts, news, models, and so on concerns mostly a small core of the community, those who are the most active. Most of casual players use a car skin without knowing who is its author.

Multiple title teams? If there are no multi-environments events, and/or if those are considered as secondary by most of pros, multiple title teams are unlikely to happen imo. Then our challenge is to build up such tournaments and make them successful. For now, there are still several constraints that will not make it easy (no multi-environment server feature, for instance).

Maniapark, Mania-Actu and Mania-Exchange are crucial websites indeed, but it doesn't prevent players to come there for different things. Are you sure that Trackmania fans will read the Shootmania news? Conversely? I think it's a bit like a supermarket: most of players will come and go straight to what they are looking for, because they'd spend a whole day if they read everything (which means the community is active and dynamic, at least!).

Anyway, i think you can't avoid to think about how each decision (not only community management but game design, marketing, and so on as well) will affect the community evolution, because it HAS an influence. In those matters, there are hardly a 100% good and a 100% bad solution, anything is debatable. My point wasn't to trash your choices but to explain each choice you made had (and will have) consequences - good and bad. And that some choices that might have provided great successes on other sides, might be responsible of upcoming difficulties as well.

Each player is responsible for his/hers behaviour and words, and of course the split is the consequence of that. But on another hand, if you sell the environments per bundles, people will get used to play several of them, hence less narrow-minded. If you give diversified food to a young child, he will like diversified food when he grown up. If you give him only french fries, he will like only french fries. As you said, splits didn't happen that much during TMO/TMS. They do with Stadium and Canyon, both those who are sent without bundles. I mean, when you decide a business model, it has an influence on the gaming patterns. A mayor who decides to put a traffic light vs a roundabout knows it will lead to different driving patterns (even with the SAME drivers).

Very true, and this really started back in 2006 when Nadeo released TMN ESWC. It was then that they created a different way of looking at TrackMania where only 1 environment was in focus.

ManiaPlanet feels like an attempt to fix this "problem" and to get everyone on the same board again just like it was in the old days before TMN ESWC was released. And at the same time seeing TMN ESWC/TMNF as the mistake that started all these ”issues”. The irony of that is of course that it's Nadeo's biggest success and what brought them to where they are today.
I also think it's ironic that Hylis keeps saying it's the people that are making the split when it's really themselves that laid the foundation for it. If I take a look at myself, I only do what I'm passionate about, and that happens to be 1 very good competitive eSports racing title/environment called Stadium that was released as a stand-alone game 7 years ago and which I've never stopped playing since because it's just so darn awesome (albeit pretty flawed too and far from perfect). 
I just don't see how I'm splitting a community when all I do is to be passionate about what I like, and in my eyes I'm very dedicated and loyal to my community because that's what I'm all about and I think it's important.
And at the same time what I don't like I don't pay much attention to which I think is pretty logical and how it should be.
As mentioned I believe Nadeo laid the foundations themselves for this way of thinking. So I really don't see how you can blame people like me for it.

Just to elaborate, bringing Stadium to ManiaPlanet is an attempt to get everyone on this same board. But as we see right now, the majority of people are still playing TMNF which definitely says something about all this. 
Last time I checked only about 500 people were online in TM2 Stadium, whilst over 6000 people were still playing TMNF (a number which was over 20k before Freezone). And this is of course a huge problem for the competitive scene as we now see tournament organizers hesitate to move over to the new game which is not ideal for a competitive title with a sequel to it.

So if Nadeo really want to fix this ”problem” and to be a united community under one roof, then they have a long way ahead of them with ”upcoming difficulties” like rom42 puts it. Personally I just don't think it's the right approach and they should change it.

And split of the community is not made by us, it is simply made by people who are splitting it: as simple as that.

I like turtles

Rom42, did you knew the LE on TM0, back in 2003? Frostbeule is trying to fool you with the number on freezones and else, but TMO peak were around 150 simultaneous and Sunrise was 400, and the community was great. Canyon alone is bigger and is still the second most played environment, now and ever (apart maybe from the demos of original and sunrise, but TM² demos may arrive as well)

Anyway, look at the comments that are already trying to avoid eSport happening on Valley here, and you will see that there is something to change in town. And if you think that it is to not release environments, we think in another way, indeed. Look at Storm, there are things to change. So, there are some red lights in town, and some players are crossing them at the moment, like the ones insulting others. Do you really want to keep them in town?

I see no emergency about the end of the community. Everyone is shouting at everyone here...That's what i always called love. Fb and Hylis are Hardly, deeply in love!

I like drugs

Valley is incoming, pOWA!

Frostbeule is trying to fool you with the number on freezones

+1 znik, I also like turtles.

There is something like if the people around, the community, had to deal with these people. They would be much happier without and they are here for the fun. I think they fear something, like losing a potential future or else. But the future is based on keeping away the people that are dividing, much more than trying to keep the rotten behaviors around.

Nadeo can add any tool they could do to the game, it would change anything because everything has been done on it. Tm2s could have given a 2nd life to trackmania series but communication and marketing have been nonexistent. Few sales and few players is the result today. Nadeo's fail is here and it's too late. I remember tmn first week launch in 2006, there were sooooo many players registering all over the world thanks to the buzz on internet and eswc.

So play trackmania for fun or go LoL, sc2 or csgo if you are looking for esports.

Today it's really too late, TM is just for fun. Driving cars with the same gameplay for 6 years, it's pretty boring for public. Esport needs updates, patches, a game has to evolve month by month.
Unfortunately, Trackmania doesn't belong to this category.

It's just a question of:
1) marketing before sales
2) support after sales